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What "Twice Upon a Time" did right and wrong

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What "Twice Upon a Time" did right and wrong

Post by LastOfTheSonics on Wed 27 Dec 2017 - 17:47

What the Special did RIGHT:
-The first few seconds were marvellous. I loved the "Previously on Doctor Who" screen and then the whole 709 episodes again. It was quite thrilling to see scenes from the original episode, especially the Cybermen, even if it was just a few seconds. 
-Rusty! Of course we had to see him again. I enjoyed his part in this episode, and there's something just so satisfying about seeing a Dalek hating the Daleks. 
-Continuity references: New Earth, "You are a Good Dalek", "The original, you might say" - albeit that last quote has been used far too many times recently. 
-Writers getting a cameo.
-Steven Moffat is finally leaving.
-The 1st Doctor's regeneration closes out on the original scene rather than a shoddy recreation. It was a good idea to throw that nostalgia in.

What the Special did WRONG (this is gonna be a long one, stick with me):
-"Doctor, wakey wakey, it's all over now." Seriously? The line was presented totally incorrectly! There was no enthusiasm in it, at all! It's obvious this guy hasn't even watched the original scene, not to mention he looked absolutely nothing like Michael Craze at all. Seriously, I had to force myself to see Ben in this new non-lookalike. 
-Polly is just as bad. She looks like a barbie doll, in fact she reminded me of a Dravin from Galaxy 4 more than a classic companion.
-David Bradley has definitely put his heart and soul into living Hartnell's character, but at the same time, he delivers the recreated lines incorrectly as well. Although the mistake is not as noticeable as "Ben" messing up his lines, it's still unacceptable considering they are recreating a classic scene here.
-Rusty's aim is terrible. How can he defend himself from the Dalek mutants if his aim is THAT bad? 
-The Testimony. Seriously? How many more times are we going to have a story based around the afterlife? 
-Jenna Coleman.
-The Doctor / Clara scenes were filmed separately, and that is very apparent in the episode, it doesn't even come across like the two characters are talking to each other.
-Nardole is apart of Testimony now. So, did he die? How? And what about Hazran and the children? 
-Why aren't all the deceased companions back if Testimony can do this? Wouldn't the Brigadier make the most sense considering one of the central characters is his grandfather? (Yes I know Nicholas Courtney would obviously not be available to film it, but there's already enough lookalikes in this episode, so why not cast another?)
-If the Captain doesn't even die, why were Testimony after him in the first place? Their job is to extract memories from people at the END of their lives, so why on new earth are they after him while he's alive and well?
-Apparently this is the only instance of a war where both sides surrendered. Even if this logic just applied to reality, this still wouldn't be true. But the fact that this is the Whoniverse and there are wars all over the Universe, this still can't be true. There is one recent example of this actually, in the Empress of Mars, the Victorians and the Ice Warriors stop fighting each other.
-"I am the Doctor, the original, you might say". This quote has been used far too much recently. In the Doctor Falls, it is used at least twice possibly even three times. I'm pretty sure it was used earlier in S10 as well.
-The WWI battlefield and that planet where Rusty was - I can't be asked to recall its name - look suspiciously familiar, did I miss something that connects the two places? 
-The Captain just so happens to be the Brigadier's grandfather. Out of every soldier that could've been caught up in this situation, what were the chances of him being related to someone the Doctor knew? 
-The Doctor obviously doesn't keep his promise to the Captain. Yes i know he survives, but when eventually he dies anyway, the Doctor clearly doesn't check on his family, otherwise he would recognise the Brigadier when they first meet in The Web of Fear.
-The Captain salutes to the Doctor amidst the surrender. What? can he see him? Or is he just waving because something is telling him to? Does that mean he can remember everything that just happened for some reason? This scene makes no sense.
-How did Ben and Polly get back to the TARDIS in time? 
-Can the Doctor remember this? Or does he forget it upon regenerating?
-So the episode states that the Doctor "refused to regenerate in the south pole... twice..." except I don't remember the First Doctor at any point stating he refuses to regenerate in the Tenth Planet. 
-Peter Capaldi's final episode  Sad.
-Did Capaldi really need that speech? I get it's his final scene and all, but he's had so many speeches that it was boring to watch him summarise all the things he'd said previously.
-There are references throughout this and the previous episode that the Doctor is aware he is about to become a woman. However, it is never explicitly stated that he was indeed aware of it, or even why he chose to change gender.
-What's the correct pronoun for the Doctor now? He, She, It? 
-That final scene was not thrilling at all. Granted this time the interior was actually destroyed and the Doctor actually fell out, but it just seemed "predictable" for some reason.
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Re: What "Twice Upon a Time" did right and wrong

Post by Admin-Emperor Dalek on Thu 28 Dec 2017 - 10:33

The First Doctor came across as sexist, he never was. How did those Dalek mutants survive outside their shells?
Also there was more scenes from the Tenth Planet recreated. Available on I Tunes, but I have been sent the video on Facebook, tried downloading it but didn't work. Until i can work out how here are some stills from the cut scenes.





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Re: What "Twice Upon a Time" did right and wrong

Post by LastOfTheSonics on Thu 28 Dec 2017 - 10:44

Thank goodness these weren't in the episode. The Cybermen are completely wrong !
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Re: What "Twice Upon a Time" did right and wrong

Post by LastOfTheSonics on Thu 28 Dec 2017 - 18:48

Looks like BBC worldwide blocked it. Shame, Would've loved to see the recreations just to criticise the whole concept even further.

Am I seriously the only one who is furious at how massively the guy who plays Ben messes up his line?
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Re: What "Twice Upon a Time" did right and wrong

Post by The Eternal Dalek on Sun 31 Dec 2017 - 15:44

LastOfTheSonics wrote:Looks like BBC worldwide blocked it. Shame, Would've loved to see the recreations just to criticise the whole concept even further.

Am I seriously the only one who is furious at how massively the guy who plays Ben messes up his line?

They are actors, not impersonators. Doctor Who Magazine spelled it out pretty clearly that they were not making a shot for shot remake of The Tenth Planet, it's new actors being given an old script. It isn't supposed to be absolutely identical and was never intended to be.
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Re: What "Twice Upon a Time" did right and wrong

Post by Admin-Emperor Dalek on Sun 31 Dec 2017 - 16:51

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Re: What "Twice Upon a Time" did right and wrong

Post by Admin-Emperor Dalek on Sun 31 Dec 2017 - 17:01

Twice Upon a Time by Elijah Kraling
 

Cut footage from Twice Upon a Time edited together.


Last edited by Admin-Emperor Dalek on Sun 31 Dec 2017 - 20:53; edited 1 time in total
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Re: What "Twice Upon a Time" did right and wrong

Post by LastOfTheSonics on Sun 31 Dec 2017 - 18:33

The video works. Thanks for showing it.

I have to admit I really like the stunts here, the team did a good job with that. However I cannot help but be pained by the inaccuracy of the cybermen here. Especially considering the original footage is preceeds it, it is even more annoying. Even more so, in the Doctor Falls their "head cannons" shot orange lasers, and suddenly here they're back to the original again. This a plothole paradox.
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Re: What "Twice Upon a Time" did right and wrong

Post by Admin-Emperor Dalek on Sun 31 Dec 2017 - 20:54

The series 10 versions look like cheap versions of the 10th Planet versions.
Also I assume Bill is now dead as Clara & Nardole.?
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Re: What "Twice Upon a Time" did right and wrong

Post by Admin-Emperor Dalek on Sun 31 Dec 2017 - 21:00

Tenth Planet.


Twice Upon a Time.

Wow they cast the perfect replacement actor, I can hardly tell them apart...
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Re: What "Twice Upon a Time" did right and wrong

Post by LastOfTheSonics on Mon 1 Jan 2018 - 0:21

No way, are they being serious? I didn't even realise they were meant to be the same character!

What happened here? Did no one bother to check the actors colour? Or did they run out of white actors? And no that is not racist.
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Re: What "Twice Upon a Time" did right and wrong

Post by Admin-Emperor Dalek on Mon 1 Jan 2018 - 11:15

Or I think its politically correct, in the scene no black actors.
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Re: What "Twice Upon a Time" did right and wrong

Post by LastOfTheSonics on Mon 1 Jan 2018 - 11:44

If anything ,it would make more sense from them to have cast the guy sitting down in that shot as the Professor. He actually looks slightly like him, only slightly.
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Re: What "Twice Upon a Time" did right and wrong

Post by Dalek on Tue 2 Jan 2018 - 8:01

Just watched the deleted scenes, and I'm so glad they didn't put them in. Not only is practically everything inaccurate, but it's laughable. I get they were recreating the 60s, but surely there was a way to make it look authentic but by using the better production values of today? For instance, the sets lacked detail and were poorly built because they didn't have money in the 60s, they needed to be easily destroyed, nobody paid attention, it needed to show up on black and white, etc-why not create something that looks similar, but with more neutral colours and more realistic? That's just the tip of the iceberg-the acting is atrocious and the Cybermen stick out like a sore thumb.
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Re: What "Twice Upon a Time" did right and wrong

Post by Admin-Emperor Dalek on Tue 2 Jan 2018 - 8:27

The Cybermen from series 10 are a poor reproduction of the 60's versions.
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Re: What "Twice Upon a Time" did right and wrong

Post by LastOfTheSonics on Tue 2 Jan 2018 - 8:38

I think this would work well as a parody ! Just do voice overs for the Cybermen to make them say.comedic things and boom, they can ruin the show even further.

I'd go as far to say that these "recreations" are an insult to the 60s crew. Younger viewers of the show who haven't seen the tenth planet will assume this is what it was like. Even if it's minute, it still completely erases the story which was laid down by the crew "709 episodes ago".
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Re: What "Twice Upon a Time" did right and wrong

Post by Admin-Emperor Dalek on Tue 2 Jan 2018 - 9:01

Maybe not as you see at the beginning the original versions.
One thing I want to say, despite the First Doctor being portrayed at times as sexist, I did find some of his comments funny, like "Jolly well need a smacked bottom".
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Re: What "Twice Upon a Time" did right and wrong

Post by Admin-Emperor Dalek on Tue 2 Jan 2018 - 9:03

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Re: What "Twice Upon a Time" did right and wrong

Post by LastOfTheSonics on Tue 2 Jan 2018 - 9:34

The smacked bottom line was a reference to a Hartnell story as well wasn't it? Doesn't he say it to Susan at one point?
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Re: What "Twice Upon a Time" did right and wrong

Post by Admin-Emperor Dalek on Thu 4 Jan 2018 - 16:08

Oh yes he does but I can't remember which one.
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